Some WWE Superstars are best known for their in-ring work: Chris Benoit and Ricky "The Dragon" Steamboat are just a few of the many names that come to mind when thinking about true technical prowess in the squared circle. Others, however...the ones that truly make a long lasting impact on most fans of the game are known for their mic work as well. Week in and week out, Bobby Lashley proves he has zero talent in this category...while one Mick Foley proves he's the cream of the crop.Now maybe it's not fair to the other WWE superstars anymore. Foley, after all, is a two-time New York Times #1 Bestselling Novelist. And his promos sound as if their written by such an accomplished writer. They're priceless. Delivered expertly with evenly matched cynicism and wit with over-the-top aggression. He can be downright sinister, even scary and hilarious all at the same time.
I'm also loving his new thumbs up/"yeah" closing. Undoubtedly, Mick Foley is one of the best promo cutters of all time. How often has a wrestler cut a promo that sent chills down your spine? Foley's done that to me several times. (I can picture Donnie thinking of a 40-Year-Old Virgin-esque "you know how I know you're gay" joke right now). But seriously...
So off the top of my head, here's my list of the Top 10 best promo cutters in WWE history (in no particular order):
Mick Foley
The Rock
Stone Cold Steve Austin
Jake "The Snake" Roberts
Ric Flair
"Macho Man" Randy Savage
Kurt Angle
Hulk Hogan
Eddie Guerrero
Chris Jericho
Honorable mention to Vince McMahon.
What say you, O-sters?
20 comments: on "Who's WWE's Best Promo Cutter Ever?"
If we're going by talent that has been employed at one time or another by the WWE, then here's my list.
Steve Austin
Ted DiBiase
Randy Savage
Jim Cornette
Jake Roberts
The Rock
Mick Foley
Ric Flair
Roddy Piper
Dusty Rhodes
As far as other promotions go...
Shane Douglas
Taz (while he was in ECW as a wrestler)
Team 3D
Paul Heyman (of course while in ECW)
Eddie Gilbert
Kevin Sullivan
Michael P.S. Hayes
Billy Jack Haynes
James Mitchell
Jeff Jarrett
What?
No mentions of Arn Anderson?? Honestly guys!
If you don't have Hogan on your list, I find it hard to list Savage... great voice, never really said anything.
Another MAJOR name missing ... Jesse Ventura.
Armando among the BEST EVER???
He has ONE LINE
That's like calling Billy Gunn one of the best ever!
I've got 2 words for ya.........
Curt doesn't deserve to be among the top names. Neither does Eddie.
Here's a classic Rock promo......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xv0zp5Yx-D8
I wouldn't put Flair ahead of The Rock.
No way.
I just didn't put mine in any order.
Did I mention that the Von Erich's (before Kerry was in the WWF) could cut a mean promo? If not, get a hold of some old World Class tapes.
I'll go out on a limb and say Foley is the best promo cutter EVER, and I'll tell you why.
While the Rock, Austin, and a few others can coin a catchphrase or electrify the ring in that SPECIAL way... They simply don't have the versitility that Foley does.
I don't mean to take anything away from them, but Foley can convincingly convey any emotion, can sell himself as two polar opposites: A humorous, scruffy, twinkling-eyed, cheap popping, muppet... all the way to a deranged, glassy-eyed, tortured soul. If the Rock could act HALF as good as Foley he'd be getting awards.
In a business of over greased roided up monsters, and unutilized talent, Foley's speaking and death defying has propelled a man of limited physique to legendary status: something none of these other names could do if they had his body.
Dude, Rock had all the versatility in the world....
do you know that a HUGE percentage of Rock's promos were improved?? The Rock could do comedy, or focused and serious.
I saw The Rock once in Toronto at the Skydome for a house show in 1999. Following the Rock's main event, he got on the mic and captivated the crowd for 20 MINUTES! I'm not even kidding, not ONE PERSON left. He sang, he did some stand up. He ribbed every other main eventer... he talked about how Toronto is his second home.
Ric Flair, as Foley has said lately, is just a string of catch phrases and cliches. He's been saying the same crap for 25 years. He says it well mind you, but very little variance.
I think Rock and Foley are at the top... but in that same mix is Jake Roberts, Steve Austin, Arn Anderson and Jesse Ventura.
I did say The Rock could do focused and serious... which he did very well as a heel.
Note:
The company is called World Wrestling ENTERTAINMENT.
Interesting that you rank Cornette as #1 manager all time. Personally I'd have The Grand Wizard, Bobby Heenan or Lou Albano before Cornette.
Ok, here's my top 10...
1) Foley
2) The Rock
3) Jake Roberts
4) Steve Austin
5) Jesse Ventura
6) Ric Flair
7) Arn Anderson
8) Gorilla Monsoon
9) Ted DiBiase
10)Bobby Heenan
Foley has the creative leeway to say pretty much whatever he wants, as evidenced by his promo a few years ago where if you don't hold a title in the WWE, there is something wrong with you, said in ring on Raw.
Foley's current promo's do irreversable career damage to Flair. Flair doesn't get less old, broke down, or washed up when this feud is over.
The problem?
Flair is the babyface.
Foley is putting himself back over hard at the expense of the angle and at the expense of what's left of Flair's career. Why does this make him the best promo guy ever?
Foley has had some entertaining nights on the stick, I will not deny. However, to call him the best of all time is irresponsible. You think Foley is the only one that can come up with good shit to say nowadays? No. He's just one of the only ones left with the ok to say it.
When he essentially shot on Flair, Flair was left in the ring like a wounded dog. The next week, Foley used that vulnerability against Flair. Why was Flair only able to come up with Fat Boy? I dunno that he had any idea the verbal assault that he was about to receive.
And to be honest, half of wrestling fans are not internet smarks. Just because Foley's book is a best seller doesn't mean every wrestling fan read it. I know guys that go to WWE shows TODAY that think they will see Austin and the Rock.
Shoot promos get over with a certain audience, but because you are allowed to make them and it satiates the Internet Wrestling Community, that doesn't make you a great talker.
Great talkers are the guys that used the stick to get them somewhere in the business.
Hogan
Flair
HBK
Austin
The Rock
Triple H
Hell, then you had the guys that said absolutely nothing that ever made sense, but people listened:
Warrior
Savage
Sid
Vader
Dusty Rhodes
Then on top of that, you have the guys that could just flat out talk. Talk about wrestling, talk about matches, and make you care.
Rick Rude
Jake Roberts
Ted Dibiase
Curt Hennig
Then you had the managers:
Cornette
Heenan
Who did more to get the story and the emotion where it needed to be than those guys?
I think Foley stomps on his ability to cut promos every week nowadays, because he cut some of the best ever, but now he is simply a patsy of the internet, and in every promo he cuts, I hear him begging for the internet's approval. Foley has never had any self-esteem in the business, because he knows deep down that his stunts did get him to the top.
He is truly one of the all time greats, but the more he begs for our acceptance, the more he brings himself off the pedestal and back on our level.
I left out that Angle and Jericho are the best of the new-era talkers in wrestling.
I'd put
Hogan
Rock
Jericho
Angle
Roberts
Savage
Dibiase
Flair
Austin
Foley
As the list of the top ten in ring performers with mic skills of all time.
Honorable mention to Hennig, Hall, Rude, Rhodes, HBK, and Bret Hart.
Team Tom...
great take... way to make a debut on Tha O Show!!
I appreciate your comments Tom, but you're dead wrong. Many in your list of great talkers were people who came up with lines and catchphrases which became popular with the fans and then ran them to death. As Watch-wrestling said in another post: amazing wrestling doesnt make you a superstar, a couple catch-phrases and an eyebrow trick does. No offense but any retard with more mental capacity than Khali can do that.
Now I will admit they are GREAT talkers. They are AMAZING talkers. They are the BEST IN HISTORY. Youve gotten an incredibly charismatic group. But what puts Foley over them in my mind is a few different factors:
1st: There is a difference in my mind between talking and acting. Ive done quite a few indy movies and some stage acting and let me tell you that there's something different between Foley and most of those people you list. Ask yourself whats harder, rambling in a believable yet demented and tormented state, or giving a 7 minute diatribe about all the people you've beaten in matches? When Foley gets into his groove, he's not running down a checklist of phrases found on t-shirts, his eyes are glassing over giving a dead stare that is near impossible to recreate. The type of eyes on a war veteran remembering the traumatic events of his life. The way his voice switches from the normal cheerful tones to a spine-tingling falsetto. Remember the Orton/Foley rivalry? Remember when Foley went into the zone to the point that he punched open wounds on his own head. Who could have done that half as well and half as believably.
2nd: Charisma. No one on Earth can match the collective charisma of the wrestlers you listed. The Rock seems like the virgin birth of charisma. (Man I miss the Rock) But tell me, look at Hogan, Flair, the Rock, Austin, HHH, and HBK. What do they all have in common? Each of them happens to be an Alpha Male. And charisma is usually associated with these types. I don't imagine the Rock being smooth is all that difficult for him. I don't think its a stretch of his character. And I don't imagine its that far off for the rest of them either. Each of them is strong, cocky, and cool and probably has been since middle school. Foley is different. Foley is a hairy, broken-down, slob and yet he remains a lovable hairy, broken-down slob. He isn't going to be terribly cool like the guys you mentioned. And yet his friendly face turns are like ironic and accurate takes on them. Foley can break down a convention of wrestling speak in a subtle and honest way. And in his own way develops a strange type of charisma you'd never associate with a man of his stature. If he looked like HHH on his happier streaks I don't think you'd say he was begging for our approval. I think you'd say he was charismatic.
3rd: Versitility
Foley can do what they do: He can coin a phrase and verbally abuse a heel and make us laugh all the while. Sure he tends to be more self-abasing than other wrestlers, but he can entertain with the best of them. But they can't do what he does. They can't switch from being a lovable goofball to a legitimately scary person. No other wrestler in the history of the industry can do that and make it believable (barring Angle and he took months to make those switches). If anyone else tried, we'd be hearing on this board about how Chris Jericho is trying to make himself terrifying and how it doesn't work because of how different it was from his earlier gimmick. Mic Foley pulls off Bipolar disorder as a face or heel in a matter of moments and does it so well that we don't question the legitimacy of it. That alone should solidify him as a great.
4th. Leeway.
You say Foley isn't that great because he's given leeway to say things that other wrestlers dont. That IS true. Im not denying it in the least. But you have to ask yourself why? Why is Foley awarded with the privaledge of making up his own promos on the spot while other wrestlers need writers?(as if that weren't talent in and of itself) Mic Foley is awarded this leeway because they recognize what I do -- his talent on the mic. You think if they gave Bobby Lashley the freedom to say whatever comes to his mind that he'd suddenly become a savant? NO! and the same can be said for nearly EVERY wrestler. In fact I dare say if you gave Hogan the freedom to say whatever comes to his mind--- he'd probably say the same things ANYWAYS. The only other guys who I think COULD benefit from this are ones who already do like JBL, HBK, and HHH. Who have also proven their abilities already anyways.
You say Foley did irrepairable harm to Flair's legacy with his promos (You gotta be one helluva talker to even begin to tarnish the name of Ric Flair anyways) just because Foley is supposed to be the heel and Flair is supposed to be the face. Trust me, I dont think the wrestling fans are even paying attention to which is which at this point. At this point its beginning to imitate the Rock/Hogan match. Remember how Hogan was a heel and how hard above and beyond they went to make him seem evil. And yet when the match started at wrestlemania, they were both equally being cheered. The same is true today. The fans are about to see a fantasy match, nothing more and nothing less. And as far as Flairs legacy after this rivalry is done, NO ONE can stop that. And every time Flair goes out in the ring, he proves himself again and again. Sure he's a little bit flabbier now and a lot older, but the fact that he can even take a back drop (let alone put on an entertaining match) considering all he's been in, is not only a miracle, its a testament to the man. And he is the man, and no sharp words (or tacs for that matter) can stop that. After this rivalry, Flair will take a few months off and come back to a gleeful chorus of WOOOOO's like he has for years.
Foley's talent lies in just telling the honest to God truth.
It doesn't take much to hate Randy Orton. The guy is chiseled in stone, has the looks, and probably has women falling over him all the time. He probably gives them cleveland steamers and does his pose and leaves. He's an asshole.
Foley will tell you that he is an asshole. That's acceptable, because that is what the WWE wants to accomplish with Randy Orton.
However, I don't think what they are trying to accomplish with Ric Flair is that he is washed up, and certainly not if it's coming from another washed-up has been who certainly does not need the rub from being the one to soil the legacy of Ric Flair.
Foley promises to go away, only to return in 4-6 months, and people cheer. Do people want Foley? Somewhat. What they really want is the Rock and Austin.
I mean seriously, Scotty 2 Hotty, still gets pop because he's a guy that's there from the Attitude days.
Foley is living off his past just as much as anyone. And just because they've played off the fact that Foley gets a cheap pop in every city he goes to, doesn't mean that it's still not exactly that. Cheap.
If you invite me into your house and I say, this place is a dump, you will think I am a dick. If I say, this is the nicest house I have ever seen, you will like me. Wow, now I am a good talker.
I am honestly not trying to put under Foley's ability to talk, because I agree he's one of the best. However, I do think this recent string of promos has been vastly overated, and his stuff with Funk earlier in the summer was downright awful.
As far as Foley's versatility, I don't think that Foley played Dude Love any better than Jericho or Rock would play Mankind. Dude Love was a neat idea, but the promos certainly weren't anything to get excited about.
Foley's best mic work comes from ECW, easily. His best WWE stuff usually has him using more than one of his persona's together.
Just cause Foley will punch himself in the head til he bleeds doesn't make him the best talker in the business. The Geico gecko will tell you "theatrics may come off as being a bit cheesy."
Foley can cut the best or the worst promos in wrestling, and at the end of the day, most fans want to see the dude get set on fire or fall of a bridge or something crazy like that.
I just refuse to bow to Foley because he is able to cut shoot promos week after week. You give anyone that kind of power against an aging, balding Hogan in the 80's, and you got yourself a double turn and a new world champion.
It's a shame that Edge is the only professional wrestler working today that is willing to do his job and be a heel.
The last time anyone cut a good shoot promo on Raw was Jim Cornette where he dogged on Bret Hart and Hulk Hogan. Bar none. I don't care what anyone says.
Foley's promo as of late haven't been that well compared to his previous ones. His best promos in recent history was the one he cut before "One Night Stand 2" and the one where he told Ric "I'm done with you." But the one he cut before "ONS 2" reminded me of the promos he used to cut in ECW. In my opinion, Foley is getting over with the promos because he's Mick Foley. Wait a month or two, and there's going to be another Flair/Foley match...and it'll be against whoever is the ECW champion at that time. Hey...it's feasible with who the people get title shots are from.
People cheer for Scotty 2 Hotty not because he's there and is from the "Attitude" era, he's cheered for because a majority of the people that go to Smackdown are children and we all know children don't know any better. I bet if they really marketed Scotty 2 Hotty to the younger kids, he'd sell as much merchandise as Cena.
Dude Love was a waste of time.
Oh yeah...even if someone came into my house and told me it was nice, i'd just look at them and say "Are you just saying that to make it not appear that you're really an asshole?"
what about superstar billy graham?
Here are some links that I believe will be interested
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